More mediocre movie conversations. Sometimes the world needs a light to show them the way. You won't get that here. This blog is an informal free for all. Enjoy.
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Curious how those who haven't read the books reacted to the premature end of Joffrey's reign. Did you see it coming? Any thoughts on what exactly happened? There's definitely clues in the scene. Just like with the Red Wedding, I knew how the episode was going to end, but my heart was still in my throat. They've ratcheted up the tension in the last handful of episodes to near-Breaking Bad levels.
Glad they kept in the pre-wedding gifts. The most hateful thing about the Lannisters is how they have such disregard for history and truth, going all the way back to Joffrey and Arya's direwolf. Joffrey destroying that book is the most overt example of it, though with how insane this is all going to make Cersei, that aspect is going to get worse.
Thoughts on the Boltons? If Ramsey is going to be the next most-hated villain, something's missing either in the writing or the portrayal. He's nowhere near as much fun to hate as Joffrey, who I am very much going to miss.
I don't think they'll make Ramsey the main villain. Of course, everyone will hate him, but I don't know if that's his purpose. I read elsewhere (AV Club I think?) that the thought is that they're letting Ramsey travel about and show the terrible results of war. Plus, that sending out the hounds scene at the beginning of the episode definitely set an ominous tone to the episode.
In a lot of the interviews, the cast really talked up the wedding. Now that we've seen it, I understand why. What an amazing scene, front to back. Even knowing what was going to happen, I still missed things. I'm looking forward to rewatch.
Some things no one is mentioning today: (1) Great interaction between Jaime and Loras Tyrell. (2) Even better interaction between Loras and Oberyn. (3) Cersei is losing it. (4) Are we starting to feel some sympathy for the rigid Stannis? I've always enjoyed his character in the books. Dillane really brings his iron attitude to life. He's a hard man and a harder person to like. Some might see him as power grabbing, but I've always thought he was compelled by a perverse sense of duty as opposed to wanting to be on top. To him, anything less than making things right is outright failure on his part to uphold duty. Nothing there is easy to relate to. But, damn, his wife is bonkers. He has scarred daughter whose own mother finds distasteful. I think my thoughts on Stannis have started to turn a corner. (5) GO NORTH BRAN
I watch the show each week with my sister... who has not read the books. So, I get to see the reactions and it helps me not rely too much on the books for my critiquing of the show. With that... my sister is pretty good at figuring things out and following what signs are there during shows. She could tell something was going to happen... but she was definitely doubtful that they'd let Joffery die, as most of the time deaths hurt the watchers and don't give them what they supposedly want. She asked me with some pretty deep doubt, "Does he die? Tell me they let him die!" I didn't tell her, just gave her more of a "why would they do that?" look. When he was dead..she had her moment of celebration that was actually quickly interrupted by an aloud, "But...now who are we supposed to hate?"
Queue Ramsey Snowlton. Sure, he's not the main villain...but I think he's the target of most viewers' venom for a bit. He's earned that so far.
Joffery receiving the gifts and using Widow's Wail to slice The Lives of Four Kings apart was probably my 2nd favorite scene. I say this, only because it gave me one last reason to want Joffery to go away... so when the wedding (at this rate, why would anybody in Westeros get married now?) came, it was that much more glorious!
Good points Shane. The two interactions you mention were definitely quick highlights. I can't say I have any more sympathy for Stannis than ever before. I'm pretty indifferent on him.
Something I did notice... there were really no unnecessary boob scenes! Is this a first? I know there was the chick doing the handstand splits, who looked naked, but that was more to keep reminding us how slutty Oberyn and Ellaria can be, with how he really admired that trick. But yeah, no gratuitous boobs or sex scenes.
Thoughts on the use of Bronn to train Jaime? It's clearly a choice made to give Bronn, a crowd favorite, more screen time. I like it, but it does soft of go against the obviousness of a choice that requires complete silence on the matter. No real quarrel with it, just interesting.
First of all, we're reaching a point where I can barely keep track of each character when spending 7 days between episodes.
I figured something bad would happen to Joffrey soon. Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed as his character is an awful person, but makes for a good show. Cersei's character irritates me to the point where I don't enjoy her scenes. For one of few times in my life I'm going to rewatch parts of this episode to try to figure out who I think did it.
The opening scene with Ramsey was brutal. Who was that poor girl? When did we previously see Ramsey's character and the Bolton's?
Stannis is an idiot - I have no sympathy for him after sleeping with the lady in the red dress (seriously memorizing all these characters is impossible).
I wasn't a huge fan of this episode in general as it was missing my favorite story lines - Arya and beyond the wall.
Question - Why doesn't Brann use his dire wolf to hunt meet for the group? I thought that is what he was doing in the deer kill scene.
Ramsey Snow (Bolton) was the guy who tortured Theon all that time last season. Roose Bolton was the guy who stabbed Robb Stark at the Red Wedding, and spend most of sitting next to Catelyn before that, I believe.
Why does Stannis sleeping with Melisandre bother you? It was for a purpose, his wife knew, and is okay with it.
And I would say, at this point, Brann being inside Summer is still more instinct and being able to see, feel and experience...but not actually think and control him, as if he were a human in direwolf skin. But... Summer is one of the smartest of the direwolves, so it's a fair question...but even so, I'd think most wolves instincts are to hunt, feed the pack and not really gather, even for their warg/owner.
"Why does Stannis sleeping with Melisandre bother you? It was for a purpose, his wife knew, and is okay with it." I'm not one for adultery, lol.
How are the Bolton's related to the guy who hosted the Red Wedding?
Was this episode called the Purple Wedding for his face at the end?
The new family who hates the Lannisters and loves sex, the one who had the younger brother show at the royal wedding. Have we seen them before? Is that where Cersei's daughter was sent?
Right, it's not adultery (especially by the old definition) if everybody is on board with it. It's like couples in open relationships/marriages. If that's their thing! Or in this case, basically Melisandre is a surrogate mother, and since their technology is a bit behind, the only way for that is the old fashioned way! lol
The episode was called the Lion and the Rose (for the two houses of the wedding, Lannister and Tyrell), but the wedding is referred to as the Purple Wedding, but not in the books/show (while the Red Wedding is 'official'). But yea.. reasons:
"The wedding of Joffrey and Margaery has been dubbed the Purple Wedding by fans for various reasons. The poison used to kill Joffrey is smuggled to the wedding in the purple amethyst hairnet of Sansa Stark, while the wine the king drinks is described first as dark red and soon after as purple. Joffrey's face turns red and then darker as he chokes from the poison. Purple is also a color often associated with royalty."
I've always liked show Stannis since his introduction as a grammar nazi. The actor playing him incorporates a lot of ticks that I think are hilarious. As far as him and Melisandre, that was something necessary for him to do, sure, but I'm probably closer to Bryan on it. Stannis lives and breathes vows and rules, but he still broke his vow with his wife for a chance at greater power. That specifically doesn't make him likable but it very much makes him interesting. By banging Melisandre, he should have admitted that his strict adherence to the rules isn't going to be enough and moderated his position somewhat, but if anything, he's gone the opposite way.
The girl that Ramsay Snow is hunting in the opening is one half of the pair of girls that were sexing Theon last season, just before he got his dick cut off. Honestly, I was grateful that scene wasn't rougher, because based on the books, it could have been.
With the Boltons and the Freys, it's also worth pointing out that they're both lesser houses, stuck under their overlords, the Starks and the Tullys. Tywin knew he could buy them off with promises of becoming the new overlords of their regions, which they both now are.
Also, the actor playing Ilyn Payne is apparently very sick, so it's doubtful he'll show up again. Bronn is the perfect substitute, if only for more Bronn.
I feel like they've been dialing back the nudity for awhile, which I'm a big fan of. The way it's shoehorned in, often just for the sake of boobs, keeps it from being an all-time great show. Shows like The Sopranos or Deadwood had plenty of nudity but it was (almost) always relevant to the scene or gave some indication of the environment. Not the case in GoT, and the show's worse for it.
I could use more dog dying by being passed out on to really kick this show up a notch. But now that Robert Baratheon is dead, who is the most likely culprit? A drunk Hodor? Walda Frey? Maybe Thoros after he gets wasters?
Ilyn Payne isn't all that tall and beefy! He's the one with his tongue cut out, that was ordered to cut out the singer's tongue after his song displeased the court. Apparently, that was his first real acting role too.. he's a music man!
I, too, am glad they toned down the nudity. I don't really think was was there before took much away from the show... as it's hardly less than the detail that GRRM goes into when those sorts of scenes do pop up in the book.
But yeah, I'm perfectly okay with Bronn being substituted, and I think his story line should work well where he is. He's all about the Benjamins, or dragons, or whosoever's face is currently on the gold.
Reading a little more... yeah, Wiko Johnson (Ilyn Payne) was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer early last year, and decided to forgo treatment. He did record a farewell album, which I'm giving a listen to right now..and it sounds pretty good!
Two quick things...
ReplyDelete1) YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!
2) I'm 99.9% sure something horrible happened to George RR Martin at a wedding.
Curious how those who haven't read the books reacted to the premature end of Joffrey's reign. Did you see it coming? Any thoughts on what exactly happened? There's definitely clues in the scene. Just like with the Red Wedding, I knew how the episode was going to end, but my heart was still in my throat. They've ratcheted up the tension in the last handful of episodes to near-Breaking Bad levels.
ReplyDeleteGlad they kept in the pre-wedding gifts. The most hateful thing about the Lannisters is how they have such disregard for history and truth, going all the way back to Joffrey and Arya's direwolf. Joffrey destroying that book is the most overt example of it, though with how insane this is all going to make Cersei, that aspect is going to get worse.
Thoughts on the Boltons? If Ramsey is going to be the next most-hated villain, something's missing either in the writing or the portrayal. He's nowhere near as much fun to hate as Joffrey, who I am very much going to miss.
I don't think they'll make Ramsey the main villain. Of course, everyone will hate him, but I don't know if that's his purpose. I read elsewhere (AV Club I think?) that the thought is that they're letting Ramsey travel about and show the terrible results of war. Plus, that sending out the hounds scene at the beginning of the episode definitely set an ominous tone to the episode.
DeleteIn a lot of the interviews, the cast really talked up the wedding. Now that we've seen it, I understand why. What an amazing scene, front to back. Even knowing what was going to happen, I still missed things. I'm looking forward to rewatch.
Some things no one is mentioning today:
(1) Great interaction between Jaime and Loras Tyrell.
(2) Even better interaction between Loras and Oberyn.
(3) Cersei is losing it.
(4) Are we starting to feel some sympathy for the rigid Stannis? I've always enjoyed his character in the books. Dillane really brings his iron attitude to life. He's a hard man and a harder person to like. Some might see him as power grabbing, but I've always thought he was compelled by a perverse sense of duty as opposed to wanting to be on top. To him, anything less than making things right is outright failure on his part to uphold duty. Nothing there is easy to relate to. But, damn, his wife is bonkers. He has scarred daughter whose own mother finds distasteful. I think my thoughts on Stannis have started to turn a corner.
(5) GO NORTH BRAN
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI watch the show each week with my sister... who has not read the books. So, I get to see the reactions and it helps me not rely too much on the books for my critiquing of the show.
ReplyDeleteWith that... my sister is pretty good at figuring things out and following what signs are there during shows. She could tell something was going to happen... but she was definitely doubtful that they'd let Joffery die, as most of the time deaths hurt the watchers and don't give them what they supposedly want. She asked me with some pretty deep doubt, "Does he die? Tell me they let him die!" I didn't tell her, just gave her more of a "why would they do that?" look. When he was dead..she had her moment of celebration that was actually quickly interrupted by an aloud, "But...now who are we supposed to hate?"
Queue Ramsey Snowlton. Sure, he's not the main villain...but I think he's the target of most viewers' venom for a bit. He's earned that so far.
Joffery receiving the gifts and using Widow's Wail to slice The Lives of Four Kings apart was probably my 2nd favorite scene. I say this, only because it gave me one last reason to want Joffery to go away... so when the wedding (at this rate, why would anybody in Westeros get married now?) came, it was that much more glorious!
Good points Shane. The two interactions you mention were definitely quick highlights. I can't say I have any more sympathy for Stannis than ever before. I'm pretty indifferent on him.
Something I did notice... there were really no unnecessary boob scenes! Is this a first? I know there was the chick doing the handstand splits, who looked naked, but that was more to keep reminding us how slutty Oberyn and Ellaria can be, with how he really admired that trick. But yeah, no gratuitous boobs or sex scenes.
Thoughts on the use of Bronn to train Jaime? It's clearly a choice made to give Bronn, a crowd favorite, more screen time. I like it, but it does soft of go against the obviousness of a choice that requires complete silence on the matter. No real quarrel with it, just interesting.
Haven't read the books.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, we're reaching a point where I can barely keep track of each character when spending 7 days between episodes.
I figured something bad would happen to Joffrey soon. Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed as his character is an awful person, but makes for a good show. Cersei's character irritates me to the point where I don't enjoy her scenes. For one of few times in my life I'm going to rewatch parts of this episode to try to figure out who I think did it.
The opening scene with Ramsey was brutal. Who was that poor girl? When did we previously see Ramsey's character and the Bolton's?
Stannis is an idiot - I have no sympathy for him after sleeping with the lady in the red dress (seriously memorizing all these characters is impossible).
I wasn't a huge fan of this episode in general as it was missing my favorite story lines - Arya and beyond the wall.
Question - Why doesn't Brann use his dire wolf to hunt meet for the group? I thought that is what he was doing in the deer kill scene.
Ramsey Snow (Bolton) was the guy who tortured Theon all that time last season. Roose Bolton was the guy who stabbed Robb Stark at the Red Wedding, and spend most of sitting next to Catelyn before that, I believe.
DeleteWhy does Stannis sleeping with Melisandre bother you? It was for a purpose, his wife knew, and is okay with it.
And I would say, at this point, Brann being inside Summer is still more instinct and being able to see, feel and experience...but not actually think and control him, as if he were a human in direwolf skin. But... Summer is one of the smartest of the direwolves, so it's a fair question...but even so, I'd think most wolves instincts are to hunt, feed the pack and not really gather, even for their warg/owner.
"Why does Stannis sleeping with Melisandre bother you? It was for a purpose, his wife knew, and is okay with it." I'm not one for adultery, lol.
DeleteHow are the Bolton's related to the guy who hosted the Red Wedding?
Was this episode called the Purple Wedding for his face at the end?
The new family who hates the Lannisters and loves sex, the one who had the younger brother show at the royal wedding. Have we seen them before? Is that where Cersei's daughter was sent?
Stannis was doing his wife's god's bidding by sleeping with the red lady. Think of it less as sex and more as actually creating a being.
DeleteThe Boltens were bought off by the Lannisters, just like the Freys (who hosted the wedding). Bolten was in Robb's inner circle.
We have not met the Martells before. They're from Dorne, which is indeed where the Lannister daughter is.
Right, it's not adultery (especially by the old definition) if everybody is on board with it. It's like couples in open relationships/marriages. If that's their thing! Or in this case, basically Melisandre is a surrogate mother, and since their technology is a bit behind, the only way for that is the old fashioned way! lol
DeleteThe episode was called the Lion and the Rose (for the two houses of the wedding, Lannister and Tyrell), but the wedding is referred to as the Purple Wedding, but not in the books/show (while the Red Wedding is 'official'). But yea.. reasons:
"The wedding of Joffrey and Margaery has been dubbed the Purple Wedding by fans for various reasons. The poison used to kill Joffrey is smuggled to the wedding in the purple amethyst hairnet of Sansa Stark, while the wine the king drinks is described first as dark red and soon after as purple. Joffrey's face turns red and then darker as he chokes from the poison. Purple is also a color often associated with royalty."
oops, subscribed
ReplyDeleteI've always liked show Stannis since his introduction as a grammar nazi. The actor playing him incorporates a lot of ticks that I think are hilarious. As far as him and Melisandre, that was something necessary for him to do, sure, but I'm probably closer to Bryan on it. Stannis lives and breathes vows and rules, but he still broke his vow with his wife for a chance at greater power. That specifically doesn't make him likable but it very much makes him interesting. By banging Melisandre, he should have admitted that his strict adherence to the rules isn't going to be enough and moderated his position somewhat, but if anything, he's gone the opposite way.
ReplyDeleteThe girl that Ramsay Snow is hunting in the opening is one half of the pair of girls that were sexing Theon last season, just before he got his dick cut off. Honestly, I was grateful that scene wasn't rougher, because based on the books, it could have been.
With the Boltons and the Freys, it's also worth pointing out that they're both lesser houses, stuck under their overlords, the Starks and the Tullys. Tywin knew he could buy them off with promises of becoming the new overlords of their regions, which they both now are.
Is it breaking a vow if his wife's god, and his wife, are totally cool with it?
DeleteIt's Stannis, so a clear yes.
DeleteI have to disagree with you there, but fair.
DeleteIs he a kinslayer than, for his part in Renly's death?
Definitely, though I don't know if they've even used that word in the show.
DeleteAlso, the actor playing Ilyn Payne is apparently very sick, so it's doubtful he'll show up again. Bronn is the perfect substitute, if only for more Bronn.
ReplyDeleteI feel like they've been dialing back the nudity for awhile, which I'm a big fan of. The way it's shoehorned in, often just for the sake of boobs, keeps it from being an all-time great show. Shows like The Sopranos or Deadwood had plenty of nudity but it was (almost) always relevant to the scene or gave some indication of the environment. Not the case in GoT, and the show's worse for it.
I could use more dog dying by being passed out on to really kick this show up a notch. But now that Robert Baratheon is dead, who is the most likely culprit? A drunk Hodor? Walda Frey? Maybe Thoros after he gets wasters?
DeleteCan't they find another tall, beefy guy? No one would notice, especially compared to the other character switch (Khaleesi guard).
DeleteWhere is the Zombie King?!?!?
Ilyn Payne isn't all that tall and beefy! He's the one with his tongue cut out, that was ordered to cut out the singer's tongue after his song displeased the court. Apparently, that was his first real acting role too.. he's a music man!
DeleteI, too, am glad they toned down the nudity. I don't really think was was there before took much away from the show... as it's hardly less than the detail that GRRM goes into when those sorts of scenes do pop up in the book.
But yeah, I'm perfectly okay with Bronn being substituted, and I think his story line should work well where he is. He's all about the Benjamins, or dragons, or whosoever's face is currently on the gold.
Reading a little more... yeah, Wiko Johnson (Ilyn Payne) was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer early last year, and decided to forgo treatment. He did record a farewell album, which I'm giving a listen to right now..and it sounds pretty good!
DeleteI thought Payne was the new cannibal, I'm confused
ReplyDeleteThe new cannibals? Those are the Thenns. Ilyn Payne was/is the King's Justice/executioner.
Delete