Sunday, April 20, 2014
Game of Thrones 33: Breaker of Chains
Lot of internet buzz about that Cersei rape, if it was even rape, though I'm pretty sure it was. Does it fit with the Jaime of last season? Why has Stannis completely forgot about the Wall? Really thought the Hound and Arya were going to spend some time with that farmer, but that went a different way.
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Now... I don't mind the show making changes from the novel. It's necessary and even refreshing. This is the second time, however, they've added a rape scene where none such existed in the books. The first being Daeny and Drogo. Until this point, that change has always been my greatest gripe. This was definitely rape... and it goes against everything their relationship has been. It goes against Jaime's development and does no justice to Cersei's character. I've read a thing or two about how Cersei was ambiguous and seemed to start actively taking part... doesn't matter. She resisted, verbally and physically. It was an unnecessary and pretty gross change, one that I don't see any positive in, or how it adds to any part of the story or characters. This bothers me.
ReplyDeleteMeh, Stannis. I much rather watch Davos interact with Shireen than Stannis.
Not a fan of the Hound robbing the farmer here. I, too, thought they were gonna stay for a little bit. I've always liked the Hound, especially when he shows he may actually care about something, or at least have some sense of honor left.... but it seems they're trying to take that away again.
Well, the Boobs are back. We get it, Oberyn has a lot of sex. All the sex. He's probably having sex right now. I do like Pascal so far, though.
This episode felt like it will be the low point of the season. We had some major excitement at the Purple Wedding, and this just sort of coasted us along in the story lines. Not that it was a bad episode (other than Cersei/Jaime, i mean).
Not sure if it was a long day or the episode, but I fell asleep when Tyrion was talking about who did it.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping during the Champion fight scene that a dragon would just bite the guy in half.
Having not read the books Jamie's actions are consistent with his selfish mantra.
I'm glad the wildlings were shown, that story line is intriguing, but I'm still waiting to see the zombie king again.
Can we get an episode that doesn't involve Kings Landing please?
In the books did they have sex in front of the Joffrey's dead body but it wasn't rapey?
ReplyDeleteLow point? I thought it was fantastic and made me eager for Tyrion's trial, eager for Mereen to fall.
I wasn't surprised Little Finger was involved but I was surprised at how he behaved in front of Sansa- I guess once he's out of the city he doesn't think he needs to pretend to be nice anymore, he showed a bit too much of his true colors there.
I also don't care about Stannis.
I forgot one of my favorite parts- Tywin stealing the little brother away and looking back at Cersei as if to say- I'll be taking this one so you don't fuck him up too.
ReplyDeleteAgain, Charles Dance owns it. His version of Tywin>>>>Book Tywin.
DeleteI must have slept through more than I remember, need to rewatch this episode.
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't at ALL consistent with Jaime... he's never been high on honor, but he's always treated Cersei differently, and showed true romantic love for her (and i believe has stated she's the only women he's ever been with, and wanted to be with). And he's been making some changes since meeting Brienne and losing his hand. That's not to say he's good people, but I don't think that played out right with what we've seen leading up to the episode.
ReplyDeleteAnd correct, Sean. In the novels....they have sex next to the body, and she does say it's not right before they start, and they shouldn't do it, but then she goes all in and makes it happen. I don't recall any ambiguity at all , she consents.
Tywin knows the game better than almost anybody, with the exceptions being perhaps Littlefinger and Varys. Pretending to teach Tommen something good, just to manipulate him...especially in front of Cersei is exactly what we'd expect of him.
It's a game of thrones, and the throne is in King's Landing, Bryan! haha But yeah, there'd definitely been a focus there so far, so we'll see if they bring some of the other stories to the forefront. There is so much going on in different places, that it seems each plot has been missing from an episode so far, except King's Landing. I'm sure we'll get our dose of Roose and some of Bran next week.
It was Jamie, but he probably still had a boner and wasn't thinking clearly.
DeleteSame rule applies here I guess.
DeleteFirst episode Jaime is not the same as 33rd episode Jaime. Also, he threw Bran out the window FOR Cersei. Jaime is a selfish ass, except for when it comes to her. I don't think the two actions are at all comparable.
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ReplyDeleteThe director of the episode has been giving several interviews, and it seems that he intended to film the Jaime-Cersei scene as an initial no that becomes a yes. If that's where he wanted to go with it, I think it's safe to say he failed. I'm going to reserve judgment here and wait and see how they follow that scene up. First impressions though, are definitely negative.
ReplyDeleteThe show continues to frame Cersei as a much more sympathetic character than she is in the books. Tywin was talking to her just as much as he was talking to Tommen, and then for Jaime to turn on her like he did. I prefer the show's version to the books, where she's more a cartoon evil queen. Here, she's still got her negative qualities, but their origin is more clear and pitiable.
I thought the boobs in this episode were organic to the scene, such that any free time Oberyn and Ellaria have is likely spent in a brothel.
The Dany-Drogo rape scene in the pilot has never bothered me. It struck me as something Drogo would do and not think twice about, and I prefer Dany taking control of a bad situation to her immediately falling in love with a guy who just bought her. Also, just because book-Drogo doesn't rape book-Dany on their wedding night doesn't mean he wasn't raping her every night when they got out on the road. It's also worth remembering that book-Dany was 13 at that point. The book version is superficially prettying up something really ugly, while the show views it as what it is.
I wouldn't say low point, but this episode was by far the most table-setting-y of the three so far. Stannis is heading somewhere, Tyrion's trial is established, the Night's Watch get a side quest, Dany starts her siege. It was mostly setup with no payoff, something GoT has to do all the time.
Yeah, he definitely failed. There would have been multiple ways to say that, and this version wasn't one of them.
DeleteJust because we're in the brothel, doesn't mean we need nameless boobs bouncing around the screen. We all know what goes on in brothels, and what Oberyn likes to do. It wasn't nearly as bad as in the passed, but it'd definitely a "higher some extras with nice tits just to throw in there" for a bit. They did add a big of man ass and penis to even it out a bit.
And I think that was the point of not ever mentioning Drogo raping Daeny in the books. We would have known, being from her point of view. And it showed that he wanted something different in his khaleesi, and not some weak girl he can just overpower, but one that he can try to understand. Making it a rape scene in the show didn't add anything, even if you DO believe that it's just what the savage Khal would do... but it didn't take that scene to convince us the Dothraki were savages.
The book has no reason to pretty things up, I mean they already contain 12/13/14 year olds, when the show had to make them all multiple years older to avoid any backlash.
And yeah, I agree. 'low-point' was the wrong choice of words..but meant in terms of the action, big event way. This was all about the set up.
Also, meant to mention... this episode gave me a little hope in liking Daario more. He's such a colorful character in the books.
It's a brothel. Boobs are the name of the game. We're hammering home that Oberyn is impulsive and dictated by something other than calculated reason. He's that typical alpha male, but with a slick accent and a royal background.
DeleteThe Dany/Drogo thing never bothered me either. It was an introduction to this world and what it was like. In the context of their world, I don't even know if that's considered rape. This isn't a very civilized place and people are still clearly treated as chattel. This is in our history and still exists in parts of our world right now. Ahh, the pureness of the history of marriage!
I think that's why it mattered so much though, that he didn't rape her. It was a part of their world, and as the Khal, with his braid uncut, he basically could do what and whoever he wants. But he made a choice to let her dictate something. It was an element of his character that seemed misplayed. I think the Cersei/Jaime scene betrayed their characters far more.
DeleteI rewatched the episode today - I think Cersei does show signs of either submitting or going along with it.
ReplyDeleteNot as much here, but there seems to be an outcry from people who read the books that Cersei isn't mean enough in the show. I can't stand her, every scene she is in makes me annoyed at the show and angry at her - so she's fulfilling her role. I'm not sure she can be more hateful in the show without her character becoming laughable.
Sure...shows signs after coercion/force, all the while still verbally protesting. Anybody who argues that it isn't rape, is bending the definition of rape, which media and people do enough already.
DeleteI think Cersei is portrayed fine in the show, and like you said... gets the job done with how you feel about her.
You're right, in my skipping through I happend to catch the 3-4 seconds where her hand is on his face (not clawing it) but the rest of the time she is telling him to stop and it's not right.
DeleteI won't enter a "what is rape" conversation, but I'm still confused by this scene being so explicitly rapey. The book was way more ambiguous as to whether it was rape or not (and I think both interpretations are reasonable), so I don't know why they needed to make this more rapey. My prediction is that we'll find Cersei and Jamie post-coitus, cuddling.
DeleteI guess the only thing to gather from this is that Cersei isn't nearly as in control as she wants to be.
Grantland has an Ask the Maester series every week http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/ask-the-maester-answers-to-your-questions-about-tullys-people-beyond-the-wall-and-sexual-customs-in-the-kingdom/
ReplyDeleteHe answers questions about the episodes using book knowledge while not giving out spoilers.