While we wait for this Holy Motors debate to take over our lives (I'm calling it; it will happen), let's begin the "who knows how often I'll actually do this" series we were all waiting for: REVISITING WESTEROS! Yes, I actually did sit down and watch the very first episode of Game of Thrones for the first time since its original airing. Some thoughts from that original episode (Spoilers for anyone not caught up are coming):
- I miss Ned Stark. Sean Bean, bad ass. Pretty much all you need to know about Ned is in that initial scene where he executes the deserter of the Night's Watch. "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword." Good on you Ned.
- The show felt so much more light-hearted, but that's probably b/c the tragedy isn't until the end. Watching all the Stark kids interact together was heart-warming and depressing at the same time, knowing where all of them are now.
- If you need a reason to watch anything in this episode, go back and watch Tyrion's first scene. His hair is RIDICULOUS. They gave Dinklage some emo blonde wig that looks completely insane. I'm fairly certain the wig didn't even make it to the end of the episode. I have no idea why they didn't just reshoot that scene.
- Cersei's character has not changed in the slightest. Every living character has become someone much different. Not her.
- I forgot Jon's relationship with Catelyn. What a bitch, huh? Jon's relationship with much of the family was interesting. Of course, it was only for motivation purposes. I can't see how any of it affects the remainder of the story at this point.
- Speaking of living and dying, here's a list of the cast of this episode, and where they are now. Not surprised which list is longer. Enjoy!
It's amazing to see how generally crappy this episode looks compared with the show today. The Dothraki wedding scene might be the worst scene in the series, and the costuming/hair had a long way to go, too. The scene of Bran at the top of Winterfell, when he sees the royal caravan, is also some shoddy CGI.
ReplyDeleteFun book fact: Tyrion does a backflip off a barrel or something when Jon meets him outside the banquet. A wise edit by the showrunners.
The wolfskin sheath that Ned pulls Ice out of remains one of the best props in the series.
Another big change from the book is that Drogo seduces Dany on their wedding night, instead of the full-on rape here. Setting aside the inherent creepiness in GRRM writing about a 13-year old girl getting turned on, the show version fits better with the world, especially since book Drogo goes on to rape Dany anyways.
I love the first season, but these first three episodes have pretty serious problems. Not really the show's fault, as it has to introduce this huge and complicated world, but the flaws are there, and it'll be fun to talk about.
When in the books does Drogo rape Daeny? If I recall correctly, he gave her the option to refuse, and she never once looked at it as rape... and she willingly participated. She was scared, and it was painful, but it was consensual.
Delete"He stopped then, and drew her down onto his lap. Dany was flushed and breathless, her heart fluttering in her chest. He cupped her face in his huge hands and looked into his eyes. “No?” he said, and she knew it was a question.
She took his hand and moved it down to the wetness between her thighs. “Yes,” she whispered as she put his finger inside her."
Now for a while she was still scared, felt alone, she cried because she was so sore (also from all the riding, saddle sores), while the sex was rough and it's the only time he paid much attention to her.
I think it's an overall important point to their relationship, and I'm guessing the show people would say they didn't mean to make it seem to rapey, but they're clearly not good at that. The might as well have Robin Thicke directly those scenes. Gross
Now, I will say, it can be said she was coerced or consented out of fear, but that's never expressed to us in the books. She makes her fear well known to the readers, but doesn't ever say she's pushed, coerced or forced into anything. Being a POV character, I think we would have been given that pretty outright if that's what GRRM was trying to imply. But I think that's a valid argument to make, seeing as her brother and Drogo instilled fear in her about the marriage in general.
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ReplyDeleteSetting aside her 13-year-old-ness, it's impossible for her to say no to Drogo, so he rapes her. Her discomfort is clearly communicated in the book, but she has sex anyways. She never resists once they get out on the road because she's lived with her brother for her whole life and knows what happens when you tell a man something he doesn't want to hear.
ReplyDeleteThe showrunners would likely, unequivocally call the scene in the pilot rape, compared to the Jaime-Cersei scene, where they called it rape but the director made some dumb comments and it's difficult to square that rape with how the characters interact in the finale. I'm with the show in the pilot, less so in season 4. Reading that paragraph you quoted is exhibit A. The context is gross, and GRRM's a little gross for writing it.
You don't seem to be setting it aside. You're setting our modern society age of consent into a world that takes place in a vastly different time. We can't really judge it on age here... regardless of how odd it seems to us. It's considered that it was normal for females of 12-14 to wed, and even given birth during the middle ages, the type of time this would be based off of. I don't really see it as gross, as much as him trying to represent that time period. And GRRM has openly talked about how things he writes about aren't pleasant, but he's trying to be fair and representative of the time (including rape, pillaging, etc)
DeleteI just read the chapters again.. and it's not impossible at all for her to say no. He explicitly asks her, she understands is as a question, and not only says yes, but physically prompts him. I read somewhere that the actors weren't too happy with the scene, either. So, while I do think it's possible to debate what's in the books, but the show is very clear in getting that part wrong.
What are your guys' take on Catelyn? She was one of my more favorable characters in the novels... but i never felt like the show did her justice. I was just talking to a couple people in my nerdy baseball league.. and they hated Cat, and felt like she was stupid and just in the way.
ReplyDeleteFor me, she was always smart, and a voice or reason. The issue was, is that she was almost always ignored when it came to her council. She warned Robb not to send Theon, warned Renly about not being prepared for war and what'll happen... she negotiated well with the Freys, until Robb botched that with his marriage, etc.
Her one downfall seemed to be her treatment of Jon, which most people might considered justified... with what information she had, and him being Ned's bastard. It may be a part of what drives him, but i don't think she deserves any credit for being shitty toward him.
I'll be interested to hear more on your take of her during the first season.
Also... being picky on a detail.. the direwolf is Nymeria, not Lymeria. :-p named after Queen Nymeria, who is likely somewhere in the direct line of Prince Oberyn!
ReplyDeleteShe gives consent in the book, but whatever amount of good will that generated for Drogo is blown up by the rapes on the road. Dany said yes once, so for Drogo, that means yes all the time, even when she's blistered and miserable and suicidal (I may be misremembering that last one). Therefore, what difference does it make if their wedding night isn't a nightmare? The show is a more honest depiction, though I do certainly remember complaints from the first season about the reality of a woman falling in love with her rapist. We can talk about that later.
ReplyDeleteObviously, in this world and in actual history and some places today, Dany's situation would have been run-of-the-mill unexceptional. It was garbage then, and it's garbage now. Drogo going against the norm and not being a wedding-night rapist, when in his world, he has every right to be, is a sop to modern audiences, whereas the show is clear-headed about the relationship.
The passage you quoted would fit right in with a romance novel, taking place on the deck of a pirate ship where the swarthy captain seduces the maid he's kidnapped, or something. I don't need to hear a gratuitous, pointless description of a wet thirteen-year-old, thank you very much.
I think we can often say that about a lot of things. If authors right characters exactly they 'should' be, it's boring and what's the point. If they write a character that is different from their surroundings, they're wrong because that character would never do that!
DeleteShe was suicidal... but it was presented more because she was ignored by the khalasar, left to eat alone, and felt like she was going to die from the conditions in general. She tried to hide those feelings and any fear from Drogo (as noted, she was grateful she didn't face him for that reason), but yes... he would/should have noticed the saddle sores/blisters.
I guess, I always saw this relationship to show Daeny's growth and power in general, especially over somebody who you would expect to be completely different. Drogo was clearly different than a normal Dothraki... as he made a deal to take on a wife as it was. They had the army and means to simply take Daeny and kill Viserys, Illyrio and the like by force, if they wanted. Sure he had the right to be, but he didn't want to be. He wanted a strong, ruling Khaleesi at his side.
Maybe that's too optimistic of a view.